Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

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Maglor's Fate
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Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#1 Post by Maglor's Fate » 26 May 2010 16:07

Just some (fool's) thoughts..
I was just checking the nuclear blast shop and realised that except the 4lp box set version, there's also a 2 pic lp version.I haven't noticed that before.
So thus far we have the 2 versions of the single (cd,lp) and 5 (counting right?) versions of the album (regular cd, digipack, pyramid, 2 pic lp, 4 lp box).
Being a fan of vinyl and Blind guardian, having spent hours and hard-earned money getting their stuff in record shops and the internet I feel a bit confused now. Many times I caught myself thinking "What the fuck am i doing now,bying the same album in a different format". But it's just plain as that it's my favourite band and though I don't "follow" them with the same passion as some years before, i want to collect all their releases. I suppose some people here have the same thinking.
Now let me come to the point, i don't have something against NB but ffs, how much do we have to pay just for a new album with all these limited idiotic versions? Now imagine if these guys,put out an album every one or two years. Thank god they release an album every time there's a world cup :) .It is of course the right direction for the label, they are selling and promoting their product well but pardon me I feel nostalgia for these old Virgin years.Just a cd and a vinyl version. Simple as that.
I'm against in all these "only for the fans" editions because to tell the truth, one, must be a fan to buy a cd or a record for 50 euros. After a couple of years you see all this limited etc. things overpriced at ebay or maybe you cannot even find them. Come on, it is music we talk about.
Anyway that's all.Any thoughts welcome.

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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#2 Post by Desert_Storm » 26 May 2010 16:22

Though I agree that there are too many versions out there, take a look back at the ANATO release. One cd, one LP edition, the latter consisting of two lp´s squashed into a single sleeve, no gatefold no lyrics. At least now we have something we can chose from, I mean, theoretically , no one forces you to buy all editions. As said above, five is a little much, I think an additional digipack to the normal cd and an additional picture disc to the normal lp would suffice, but everyone will have his own preferences and criteria to determine what is "enough", so yeah, I guess that´s fine.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#3 Post by blind-man » 26 May 2010 16:57

The number of different versions of the record doesn't bother me. As Desert_Storm said, you don't have to buy all of them, or any of them for that matter. The way I see it, the more options you have to choose from, the better. I'll probably just get the digipack version and be very happy with it 8).
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#4 Post by Dentarthurdent » 26 May 2010 17:00

that's Nuclear Blast for you.

I'll be buying the Digipack, and/or maybe one of the vinyl-versions, and leave the rest to the kiddies.

edit: Just took a look at the 4LP-Set. Who needs four mini-LPs in a gatefold each? o.O But then, who needs a pyramide. Fuck decadence. Let's live in caves.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#5 Post by Desert_Storm » 26 May 2010 17:35

Dentarthurdent wrote: I'll be buying the Digipack, and/or maybe one of the vinyl-versions, and leave the rest to the kiddies.
How nice of you :P
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#6 Post by Dentarthurdent » 26 May 2010 17:37

Desert_Storm wrote:
Dentarthurdent wrote: I'll be buying the Digipack, and/or maybe one of the vinyl-versions, and leave the rest to the kiddies.
How nice of you :P
well, that's just me.. too good for this planet :D
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#7 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 26 May 2010 20:35

It's stuff like this that made me stop buying cd's a couple of years ago. And you can bet that there will be a re-issue in a couple of years with a bonus-dvd or something.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#8 Post by Maglor's Fate » 26 May 2010 20:53

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:It's stuff like this that made me stop buying cd's a couple of years ago. And you can bet that there will be a re-issue in a couple of years with a bonus-dvd or something.
Well look, it seems to me that i'm -kind of- helping a band I like, to continue giving me music. That's the reason i still buy cd's merch. etc. Personal view.
Anyway as i stated in another topic the 2cd and 2lp versions will be enough for me this time.
As for the re-issues you are right.totally senseless.

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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#9 Post by t.a.j. » 26 May 2010 21:13

There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band. As an aside, if you look at it from an economic perspective this whole band-shirt thing is just silly. We basically pay for the "privilege" of advertising for bands. So either there is more to human behavior than economics or we are all a huge bunch of screaming idiots. ;)
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#10 Post by Hedge Wizard » 26 May 2010 21:21

I'll be buying the regular CD, my entire BG discography consists of regular CD cases so I wouldn't dare begin to buy a Blind Guardian digipack. I've got to go to the Nuclear Blast webstore and find out what the pyramid is... some sort of novelty? Must have something to do with the pyramid on the ATEOT cover.

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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#11 Post by Maglor's Fate » 26 May 2010 21:42

t.a.j. wrote:There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band. As an aside, if you look at it from an economic perspective this whole band-shirt thing is just silly. We basically pay for the "privilege" of advertising for bands. So either there is more to human behavior than economics or we are all a huge bunch of screaming idiots. ;)
I am aware of these things and i agree, i was meaning in my post that i'm thinking it in a more "silly romantic" way.You know...i pay for the cd=i respect the band etc.etc.

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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#12 Post by Dentarthurdent » 26 May 2010 22:10

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:It's stuff like this that made me stop buying cd's a couple of years ago. And you can bet that there will be a re-issue in a couple of years with a bonus-dvd or something.
Looking at the recent NB-publishings, there will be a "Tour-edition" or something two or three months after release.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#13 Post by Evil Peter » 26 May 2010 23:38

t.a.j. wrote:There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band. As an aside, if you look at it from an economic perspective this whole band-shirt thing is just silly. We basically pay for the "privilege" of advertising for bands. So either there is more to human behavior than economics or we are all a huge bunch of screaming idiots. ;)
That doesn't mean that album sales won't have a significant benefit from the band. The higher the bands status is with the label, the better contract they will have (both for money up front, and part of the sales) and the investment part can be huge under the right circumstances.

A few old schoolmates of mine, The Hives, had good enough record sales for the label to pay for recording a new album all over the world with various famous producers. That was very expensive, and fun for the band.

So saying that one supports the band by buying their albums is definitely correct, even if the money goes more directly to them through live gigs etc.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#14 Post by Desert_Storm » 27 May 2010 00:32

Hedge Wizard wrote: I've got to go to the Nuclear Blast webstore and find out what the pyramid is... some sort of novelty? Must have something to do with the pyramid on the ATEOT cover.
As said before in other threads, there are no details yet concerning the pyramide, it´s probably some weird NB thing like the cheese slicers and screwdriwers that were included in other bands´special editions. I recently mailed nb, and got the reply that details are going to be displayed in the webshop once they´re available
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#15 Post by blind-man » 27 May 2010 20:04

t.a.j. wrote:There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band.
I still prefer to buy the cd and help the band just a little over downloading it and not helping them at all. :wink:
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#16 Post by Dentarthurdent » 27 May 2010 22:58

blind-man wrote:
t.a.j. wrote:There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band.
I still prefer to buy the cd and help the band just a little over downloading it and not helping them at all. :wink:
plus, downloading is, after all, illegal. Taking something of a certain value without paying for it. It's theft.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#17 Post by somnia » 28 May 2010 00:11

Dentarthurdent wrote:
blind-man wrote:
t.a.j. wrote:There is a difference between buying Merch and buying CDs and in general buying Merch and going to gigs helps bands much more than buying CDs. Buying CDs mostly helps the label, though it might motivate the label to invest more money into the band.
I still prefer to buy the cd and help the band just a little over downloading it and not helping them at all. :wink:
plus, downloading is, after all, illegal. Taking something of a certain value without paying for it. It's theft.
Well, technically it's not taking.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#18 Post by Dentarthurdent » 28 May 2010 13:43

somnia wrote:
Dentarthurdent wrote:plus, downloading is, after all, illegal. Taking something of a certain value without paying for it. It's theft.
Well, technically it's not taking.
okay, so it's copying something you lawfully have to pay for without paying.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#19 Post by Orodaran » 28 May 2010 15:02

So was tape trading :P A friend buys a CD, he tapes you a cassette of it, you don't pay for it.... now a "friend" you never met rips the album and puts it online, and you download it...

I'm in no way condoning or justifying downloading stuff, but it's a bit of irony that no one was bugged about the tape trading thing....
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#20 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 28 May 2010 15:04

prolly because of teh scale...

Back in the tape trading days you had to know someone who would introduce you to the music. Nowadays you don't you can simply discover bands on your own by downloading it..

shouldn't that be a good thing??? ;)
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#21 Post by Orodaran » 28 May 2010 15:07

Well, the bottom line is that there will always be people who are happy with owning the mp3 files, just like back in the day there were people who were happy to have 2nd or 3rd hand cassettes... (and I agree with you on the different scales of the two things, btw)
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#22 Post by Dentarthurdent » 28 May 2010 20:39

Yeah, also when you were tapetrading you gave the music to 10 people or something... If you upload it, practically anyone can get it.

I have no problem with sending my CDs to friends, or getting theirs. It's as always matter of proportions.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#23 Post by blind-man » 28 May 2010 21:53

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:prolly because of teh scale...

Back in the tape trading days you had to know someone who would introduce you to the music. Nowadays you don't you can simply discover bands on your own by downloading it..

shouldn't that be a good thing??? ;)
It is a good thing. A very good thing, actually. It's the perfect promotion method. You put a song online, and it immediately becomes available to millions of people around the world.

The problem is that people will listen to it, like it, and just download the entire record instead or purchasing the cd. That's the "bad" part of it.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#24 Post by spamel » 28 May 2010 22:49

I love the Urban Hymns album from The Verve and have probably bought it three or four times over the years just to have it stolen again! Do you think I should buy it again, or just download it? Can you guess what I am likely to do?! If I buy an album, then that is it from now on. If a new version comes out, I'll probably just download it. If a band wants to try and scam their fans then tey should expect to get scammed right back.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#25 Post by Led Guardian » 28 May 2010 23:05

t.a.j. wrote:As an aside, if you look at it from an economic perspective this whole band-shirt thing is just silly. We basically pay for the "privilege" of advertising for bands. So either there is more to human behavior than economics or we are all a huge bunch of screaming idiots. ;)
I like the pictures on the shirts.

And besides, I'm advertising something I enjoy, spreading something that I want other people to enjoy as well. I consider that different from advertising a brand because it's trendy.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#26 Post by Orodaran » 29 May 2010 01:09

I never used shirt to advertise anything, I just wear them because I like them :P (and it's ages that I don't buy metal shirts anymore, I already have too many and too little occasions to wear them....) I never put a metal shirt on with the intent of letting people know of a band. It would either be preaching to the converted (other metalheads) or falling on deaf ears (people who don't care for metal) anyway...
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#27 Post by Led Guardian » 29 May 2010 08:05

Orodaran wrote:I never used shirt to advertise anything, I just wear them because I like them :P (and it's ages that I don't buy metal shirts anymore, I already have too many and too little occasions to wear them....) I never put a metal shirt on with the intent of letting people know of a band. It would either be preaching to the converted (other metalheads) or falling on deaf ears (people who don't care for metal) anyway...
Well, of course that's my main reason too. But I like to think that somewhere someone will be introduced to awesome bands because of me and my shirts. :P
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#28 Post by Evil Peter » 31 May 2010 14:19

Orodaran wrote:So was tape trading :P A friend buys a CD, he tapes you a cassette of it, you don't pay for it.... now a "friend" you never met rips the album and puts it online, and you download it...

I'm in no way condoning or justifying downloading stuff, but it's a bit of irony that no one was bugged about the tape trading thing....
The industries were certainly bugged by both the music tape and VHS technologies and wanted to stop the feature to record on them. We just hear much more about it now because information is more available and the Internet "problem" is much greater.
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#29 Post by spamel » 31 May 2010 14:40

I met a guy in Chesterfield who was wearing a BG shirt. We had a chat for ten minutes and went our separate ways. I would never have known he liked metal, same as he did not know I did as I was in work clothing at the time. He is only one of two people I have met in UK that listens to BG. :( We are planning to go to London to see them later in the year, so if the guy from Chesterfield wants a lift...... :wink:
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Re: Victims or just blind lovers? The new album

#30 Post by Edain » 31 May 2010 19:16

Orodaran wrote:I never used shirt to advertise anything, I just wear them because I like them :P (and it's ages that I don't buy metal shirts anymore, I already have too many and too little occasions to wear them....) I never put a metal shirt on with the intent of letting people know of a band. It would either be preaching to the converted (other metalheads) or falling on deaf ears (people who don't care for metal) anyway...
You forget one point: Wearing them because you like them and wearing them to show non-metalheads that metalheads can also be normal people - one of my intentions when wearing the Blind Guardian-shirt at the Austrian edition of Who wants to be a millionaire! :mrgreen:
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